I am half way through this book and it is enlightening and scary at the same time. Naomi Wolf is a liberal and not all of you will agree w/ her premise, but it is worth considering (and discussing). It is: There are 10 characteristics that are present in a dictatorship and all 10 are already present in the good ol' USA. If you go to the book site (scroll down for reviews, etc.) you can see what they are from the chapter headings. When I am done maybe I'll do a longer synopsis of the book.
As always, I am not necessarily recommending buying the book, or buying thru Amazon, as most of these books are in the library if you don't want to buy them. If you do buy it, read it and pass it on.
Sunday, December 16, 2007
Tuesday, December 11, 2007
Wow
Yall have been busy. Yes oh dear California family I will start to get more involved with the Blog, but dang, there are some serious letters on here. In time, Always,
~Jon
~Jon
Saturday, December 8, 2007
Presidential Candidates
Hey everybody,
Here is a link to a site that I found to be pretty interesting. It has videos of some of the presidential candidates' views on Darfur, something that I think is very important. I was most impressed with Senator Obama and Senator Edwards. What do you think?
http://savedarfur.org/page/content/voteredu
Here is a link to a site that I found to be pretty interesting. It has videos of some of the presidential candidates' views on Darfur, something that I think is very important. I was most impressed with Senator Obama and Senator Edwards. What do you think?
http://savedarfur.org/page/content/voteredu
Sunday, December 2, 2007
Iraq War: Room for Hope?
This Sun. had a few articles re the Iraq war that were trying to see the light at the end of the tunnel. The media does pay some attention to "success", Terry, when there is some.
The Surge is working on some level but there is always dissent on how well and how much more it will take and how much longer we need to be there.
It may even be possible to start thinking of being able to leave?
Unfortunately, the candidates seem to be rather quiet and non-committal on solutions for Iraq.
These are rather long articles but worth reading if you are keeping up on the war at all. We seem to be still in the period of asking questions more than having the solutions. It is very complex and I'm sure none of us will agree totally w/ any of the articles, but it is encouraging to think that some day the place will be stable and we will be out of there.
Michael
The Surge is working on some level but there is always dissent on how well and how much more it will take and how much longer we need to be there.
It may even be possible to start thinking of being able to leave?
Unfortunately, the candidates seem to be rather quiet and non-committal on solutions for Iraq.
These are rather long articles but worth reading if you are keeping up on the war at all. We seem to be still in the period of asking questions more than having the solutions. It is very complex and I'm sure none of us will agree totally w/ any of the articles, but it is encouraging to think that some day the place will be stable and we will be out of there.
Michael
re Twinone and SF Kid Emails
(This was reposted from an email and comment so it is more accessible)
Hi everyone;
I'm glad to see that I'm not the only one who can get a little long winded on here. I had created another long research letter in response to the post concerning "Bible inconsistency", but I clicked the wrong button at the wrong time, and it vaporized. I don't plan to re-write it at this point (everyone can now breathe a sigh of relief) because Mary has covered most of the points very well. I completely agree with her, her understanding of a relationship with a true and living God, and her belief that there are no "inconsistencies" in the Bible...only misunderstandings by the readers, and in some cases, a distortion of what it says with a purpose of trying to tear it down.
One thing that I had tried to point out in my now "lost in cyberspace" post is this...before you take a stance on a particular issue, you really should get all of the facts, and do at least some research with an open mind. This would be true of religions as well as in politics.
Here's an example: One of the "questions" that was raised in Michael's post was an alleged conflict between Gen 1 & Gen 2 regarding the creation. The original article author read these passages and decided that one (Gen 1) listed earth first, and then man was created. Then he points out that in Gen 2 it is the other way around, therefore - Conflict - therefore, it can't be true. Obviously, he didn't do enough research to study what was actually being said, and what the context was trying to point out before he came to his conclusion.
Michael had a link to this article, and there were other links as well. If the other links and articles had been read, it would be very clear why there appears to be conflict in the two chapters, when there really is none. These other links were either not read, or, the author already had his mind made up, and he wasn't about to get confused by the facts.
Politically, I see a lot of the same thing happening. Example: The troop surge in Iraq. We are to believe (as told by the media, the congress, move on, and the "left" side of politics, etc.) that Iraq is a failed policy, we are losing, and the troop surge is foolish and won't work. Despite that fact that there are (and have been) countless good things happening over there, they remain steadfast in this belief, and would not even consider that this might be the right thing to be doing, and that it could work. Well...(shock & amazement!) even some of the democratic leadership in Washington are starting to have to admit that it IS working, and even with all of their efforts to try to make it fail (because that is what they wanted to have happen to try to disgrace this administration), it's not going to. The facts are getting too obvious now to be able to ignore them or cover them up.
I too lost my faith during my college years. I also questioned the Bible, the church, our years with Dad & Mom at home, etc. I've had the opportunity to see life from many different angles (some very dark - some "fun" - some apathetically - some optimistically - etc.). At family gatherings, we all laugh about me being the "black sheep" of the family, but it's funny now because it's true. I've been there, done that, and came back! Those of you who know me, know that I am not easily convinced to do anything until I decide that I want to do it, and it's good for me. My faith (and my choice to become a Christian - as Mary has described it) was certainly no exception to this process that I tend to follow before taking a firm stance on anything - I checked it out pretty good!
Politically speaking, I'm the same way. 30 years ago I was a "rootin tootin" democrat after my fathers' heart. I don't believe that I have changed that much. I didn't leave the democratic party and the philosophy of old, but they left me! Kennedy was my kind of guy (politically, not morally), but he would have to be a republican today.
So what's my point? I HAVE listened to both sides, and I have made (what I believe to be an educated choice) a decision to reject the socialist policies, immoral practices, anti-God teachings, and self destructive attitudes of the current democratic party. Do the republicans have it all correct? Of course not, but they are talking about possible solutions to our country's problems that are a lot more in line with what I believe than the dems. Where is the next Regan when you need him? Ironically, I didn't vote for him the first time.
"Let's discuss politics & religion" - I guess I got them both into this thread. Most families would cringe at the thought of doing this, but I think it is refreshing, and would agree that we might as well "get it out there".
Thanks to both of you for some thought inspiring posts. I hope that those who are out there reading these posts will throw their "two cents" in as well.
I'm not going to chance another "poof" by doing a spell check - deal with the typos - this is going directly to publishing.
Love to ALL -
Hi everyone;
I'm glad to see that I'm not the only one who can get a little long winded on here. I had created another long research letter in response to the post concerning "Bible inconsistency", but I clicked the wrong button at the wrong time, and it vaporized. I don't plan to re-write it at this point (everyone can now breathe a sigh of relief) because Mary has covered most of the points very well. I completely agree with her, her understanding of a relationship with a true and living God, and her belief that there are no "inconsistencies" in the Bible...only misunderstandings by the readers, and in some cases, a distortion of what it says with a purpose of trying to tear it down.
One thing that I had tried to point out in my now "lost in cyberspace" post is this...before you take a stance on a particular issue, you really should get all of the facts, and do at least some research with an open mind. This would be true of religions as well as in politics.
Here's an example: One of the "questions" that was raised in Michael's post was an alleged conflict between Gen 1 & Gen 2 regarding the creation. The original article author read these passages and decided that one (Gen 1) listed earth first, and then man was created. Then he points out that in Gen 2 it is the other way around, therefore - Conflict - therefore, it can't be true. Obviously, he didn't do enough research to study what was actually being said, and what the context was trying to point out before he came to his conclusion.
Michael had a link to this article, and there were other links as well. If the other links and articles had been read, it would be very clear why there appears to be conflict in the two chapters, when there really is none. These other links were either not read, or, the author already had his mind made up, and he wasn't about to get confused by the facts.
Politically, I see a lot of the same thing happening. Example: The troop surge in Iraq. We are to believe (as told by the media, the congress, move on, and the "left" side of politics, etc.) that Iraq is a failed policy, we are losing, and the troop surge is foolish and won't work. Despite that fact that there are (and have been) countless good things happening over there, they remain steadfast in this belief, and would not even consider that this might be the right thing to be doing, and that it could work. Well...(shock & amazement!) even some of the democratic leadership in Washington are starting to have to admit that it IS working, and even with all of their efforts to try to make it fail (because that is what they wanted to have happen to try to disgrace this administration), it's not going to. The facts are getting too obvious now to be able to ignore them or cover them up.
I too lost my faith during my college years. I also questioned the Bible, the church, our years with Dad & Mom at home, etc. I've had the opportunity to see life from many different angles (some very dark - some "fun" - some apathetically - some optimistically - etc.). At family gatherings, we all laugh about me being the "black sheep" of the family, but it's funny now because it's true. I've been there, done that, and came back! Those of you who know me, know that I am not easily convinced to do anything until I decide that I want to do it, and it's good for me. My faith (and my choice to become a Christian - as Mary has described it) was certainly no exception to this process that I tend to follow before taking a firm stance on anything - I checked it out pretty good!
Politically speaking, I'm the same way. 30 years ago I was a "rootin tootin" democrat after my fathers' heart. I don't believe that I have changed that much. I didn't leave the democratic party and the philosophy of old, but they left me! Kennedy was my kind of guy (politically, not morally), but he would have to be a republican today.
So what's my point? I HAVE listened to both sides, and I have made (what I believe to be an educated choice) a decision to reject the socialist policies, immoral practices, anti-God teachings, and self destructive attitudes of the current democratic party. Do the republicans have it all correct? Of course not, but they are talking about possible solutions to our country's problems that are a lot more in line with what I believe than the dems. Where is the next Regan when you need him? Ironically, I didn't vote for him the first time.
"Let's discuss politics & religion" - I guess I got them both into this thread. Most families would cringe at the thought of doing this, but I think it is refreshing, and would agree that we might as well "get it out there".
Thanks to both of you for some thought inspiring posts. I hope that those who are out there reading these posts will throw their "two cents" in as well.
I'm not going to chance another "poof" by doing a spell check - deal with the typos - this is going directly to publishing.
Love to ALL -
Saturday, December 1, 2007
Mary & Michael Emails
Mary and I had a few emails back and forth and she had a very loving way of explaining her beliefs and encouraging me to explore an individual relationship with God as opposed to through any particular religion. Hopefully you will find both our statements informative (sorry, it got kinda long).
Mary said:
Well, we have had a VERY busy time here the last week or so, but all the kids are back in Madison and Chicago and the dishes and tables are again put away after feeding 26 for the thanksgiving feast. Joe lead the charge in the kitchen assisted by Nick, Bill, George and brother Tom. They had a great time, calling for the "scullery maids" to clean up the dishes multiple times through out their preparations. The food was wonderful and they will have to decide what recipes to keep for next year and which ones to change. Joe LOVES to head up the big adventure. You will have to join sometime with the "boy" chef time!!
Anyway... I really would like to respond to your comment about the possibility of being more than one way to heaven. Scripture teaches that there is only one way to heaven and that is through belief in the Lord Jesus Christ. Jesus says in the gospel that He is The Way and no one will come to the Father except through Him. I am created by God, for God and belief in any other gospel will get me into the group of people turned away on judgement day because I do not know God. My name will not be written in the Lambs Book of Life (Jesus book of the names of believers). Jesus is the Lamb of God ( the perfect sacrifice for the forgiveness of sin) Scripture never says he is one of the Lambs. Other belief systems may relieve sickness etc for a while, but they will never satisfy my need for a savior of my sin. I tried "religion" through my following the rules etc of Catholicism and came up empty when I needed a reason to live. I had 2 little children at the time and a husband ..... All the things the world said should satisfy, but was very much struggling with a reason to live. No religion will ever satisfy ... only a relationship with the creator of it all. I finally found my reason for living.... it was giving my whole heart to Him. To empty myself of rules and righteousness, and ask Jesus to live in my heart and serve Him alone. In all that I do, every word I speak, I do it all for my Lord Jesus Christ. It is not about me and what I know etc, it is about what He has done for me in paying for my sins. All other systems are about me and what I have done. They are all systems of legalism and rules. Only Christianity is about serving a risen savior. The others have dead leaders. Jesus Christ is seated at the right hand of God waiting for his "church" (the believers) to sit with him in heaven at the second coming. Jesus is the fulfillment of the prophecies of the old testament. He brings a new commandment.... being the Lamb of God. I no longer live, but Christ lives in me. He directs my life through His Word, teaching me to rely more and more on Him. I am not a robot, but am in a relationship with Him. I made this transition when I committed my life to Him Dec 4, 1984. As I prayed that day I no longer was searching for a reason to live, and had a desire to read the bible. I understood what the words said for the first time ever. Before that day I had all your same concerns and issues with God and the bible.... but no more. Scripture teaches about the road to eternal life being narrow because Jesus is the only Way. Many will say "but I cast out demons etc" but all the good works will never replace the need to have a relationship with Jesus. Heritage, religion, good works, race, status, any man made system will always come short of the ability to qualify me for eternal life. God created me to give Glory to Him only. Serving any other master (self, children, job, idle,....) will get me sent away on judgment day. I am a flawed human for sure, but forgiven through faith in Jesus payment through the work done on Calvary. I have never gone back to suicide, because I now have a purpose to live. My kids weren't even enough to keep me living. The biggest reason I never took my life is I was worried about who would care for Eliz and Nick. Joe was working long hours (still does) and I did not want to send them to daycare for 50 hours or more each week. But I still struggled with how to put me out of my pain and suffering..... until I realized I was missing the most important thing in my life. I was trying to work out my own life through religion, and came up very depressed. It was without purpose.... Then I found Jesus!! He continues to change me from the inside out. I did not add him to any other system but let Him be my only way. He died for me, cares for me, forgives my sins, teaches me, corrects me, and loves me (warts and all!!) After over 20 years of serving Him, I only see more clearly the consistency in scripture. I am confident I am not wrong... and have nothing to lose if I am wrong. I no longer consider suicide, and have a song in my heart and smile on my face.
For today.... I must run. I know Mom worries about us talking about faith, and it interfering with our relationship, but I believe in unconditional love and trust you do too. If I got to heaven and God lets me in (which is what I believe will happen) and I am correct with my belief of through Christ alone I get to enter heaven.... I will never be able to forgive myself that I did not share the truth about The Way because I did not think you would want to hear me. No matter what you choose to do with your faith, I will always love you as my big brother. And because you are my brother, I will continue to pray that you choose to follow Jesus Christ as your personal savior.
May God richly bless you as you consider my beliefs and thoughts!!
Love, Mary
Michael replied:
Hi, Mary.
Sorry to be slow, but biz gets in the way at times.
First I want to thank you for your loving way that you explain your beliefs and how they have saved you from self inflicted harm. I am glad it works for you. I don't mind discussing these issues or being encouraged to read the bible, etc., as long as it is not in such a dogmatic way it just turns people off. I think you expressed your views wonderfully and I know that you (and others) feel the need, obligation even, to try to spread your beliefs to others since your beliefs have helped you, and your faith directs you to help others, also.
I have off and on over the years investigated the bible and I just don't agree w/ you re its consistency (not that I am the greatest bible scholar of all time....but I do read). I basically started my doubting way back in high school and had pretty much become non-religious by college. I felt guilty about it for a while, and sometimes over the years felt I "should" try to get some sort of spirituality going again, but even investigations of other religions or philosophies have not caused me to feel enlightened or that I need to join up.
OTOH, I do not get depressed, do not feel the need to search for God, guardian angels, etc., and am generally quite happy and fulfilled. I find purpose in life all over the place, in loving family, in helping others, enjoying nature, being w/ friends, and satisfying work. I have had feelings of some sort of spiritual connection when praying (years ago) or meditating (should do it more) but can feel just as "at one" in nature, w/ Phyllis (and certain good friends), during a good workout, and when all is going well w/ a business deal.
I believe in science, logic, reason, but acknowledge we cannot understand everything (yet) that way. But we learn more every day. Once in the past the sun was a god because people didn't understand how it worked. Now we do. There were gods for rain and volcanoes but now we see those are just part of nature. Once we thought the sun and moon revolved around us while we lived on a flat surface, now we know we are a small part of a large universe and are not at the center of it.
There are healings, mental connections (ESP?), communication (maybe) w/ people who have died, entangled subatomic particles that appear in two places at once, and lots of other things that we don't understand yet, but probably will some day. I don't have to see it to believe it, but it does have to be based in reason, repeatable experiments, multiple observations, and verified by other scientists.
I know science will never have all the answers because each new answer generates more questions. Ethics of technology will be discussed and fought over as new technologies were in the past. When Drs. started doing dissections 500 yrs. ago to see how the body worked people thought that was a sin (and a crime). 100 yrs. ago blood transfusions were "playing god", but now they are an accepted part of modern medicine. Transplanting organs was denounced (still is by some) even though it saved lives. Now we are on the threshold of being able to control genetics, inheritability, avoid disease starting in the first place, and many are denouncing that as unethical, against God's law, etc.
Maybe there is an afterlife: Maybe our energy (soul) does survive in some form, but maybe it is just a physical fact, a law of nature that some day we will understand just like we understand why the sun rises in the east. That is why I am not concerned. Either there is no after life and when we die that's it. Or there is and when we die we go there. Or even reincarnate to a bodily life again as some believe (and there is as much anecdotal evidence of that as there is for "miracles"). If so, we'll all be in heaven-after life together. That's just the way it works. I see no evidence (outside of holy books) that one must believe a certain way or follow a certain behavior to have an after life if one exists. I see many religions, books, and leaders that say they are the one and only path. They can't all be right. And I don't see the bible as being any more "right" than the others. Most seem to contain some good advice mixed w/ some history but also w/ plenty of mistakes, historical fiction, bad science, and antiquated rules.
But like you, Mary, I love you and all the family. We may have widely differing opinions and beliefs on religion - which leads to different beliefs re politics, but so long as we care for each other we will be tight in this world and the next if there is one. I'd much rather be open about these differences than slink around trying to avoid conflict.
So, much love to you, and see you in a few days!!!
Michael.
Mary refining things a bit for Michael
Hi Michael
It is fine with me to put all our conversations on the blog. I am soooo computer illiterate I would not even know how!! Ali has always done things for me on the computer, and now she up and got married and moved out.... the nerve of that girl (haha)!!
Just one more comment before signing off.... The word "Christianity" today is quite often misused. It is often used to describe anyone who is not Jewish. I do not believe I am religious because I am a Christian. Religions are all created by people and full of flaws because of this. Belief in Jesus Christ as my personal savior makes me a Christian. I do not belong to any religion, but to Christ. I am therefore a Christ-ian. I am clarifying this because I do not want to be identified with any one religion. I don’t really like "religion" because it identifies me with an incomplete system of legalism and rules that depend on me doing something to prove I am good enough. Belonging to Christ totally changes my identity. I am now relying on what He did for me, not what I might do for him. I need to do nothing because it was already done for me. I used to trust religion and it only fed into my depression. I do choose to worship with a body of believers, but the church title does not matter. I worship with others who believe in the gospel of Jesus Christ. When you talk about religion being inconsistent etc I totally agree with you. I am not at all about religion, but rather having a relationship with Christ. Hopefully this makes sense. Let me know if it came out clear as mud!!! (This is foundational to how I see my faith not being one of religion)
Anyway... Go ahead and put our conversations on the blog. Its "date night" so I must be off to get cleaned up. Joe and I are looking forward to seeing you next week. I will check with mom and her calendar but we are thinking maybe Fri. for dinner....
Love, Mary
Michael’s final comment.
Dear Mary,
Yes, I understand that you are not tied to any brand of religion or name on the door of the church, and I agree that is a good thing. Cut out the middle man and go direct to your source then surround yourself with people you like who have similar beliefs (or at least who don’t challenge your beliefs) so you can have the human community we all seem to need.
And a PS to Terry:
I am not downplaying your attempts to do the same thing as Mary as far as educating me as to the bible and encouraging me to get back in the fold of believers in some way. I acknowledge that your outreach is just as loving and well intended and understand you must continue to try to persuade me so I won’t be “lost” and I am not going to criticize anyone for that. I try to convince people to do what I think is “right” at times, too. Not everyone agrees….
Mary said:
Well, we have had a VERY busy time here the last week or so, but all the kids are back in Madison and Chicago and the dishes and tables are again put away after feeding 26 for the thanksgiving feast. Joe lead the charge in the kitchen assisted by Nick, Bill, George and brother Tom. They had a great time, calling for the "scullery maids" to clean up the dishes multiple times through out their preparations. The food was wonderful and they will have to decide what recipes to keep for next year and which ones to change. Joe LOVES to head up the big adventure. You will have to join sometime with the "boy" chef time!!
Anyway... I really would like to respond to your comment about the possibility of being more than one way to heaven. Scripture teaches that there is only one way to heaven and that is through belief in the Lord Jesus Christ. Jesus says in the gospel that He is The Way and no one will come to the Father except through Him. I am created by God, for God and belief in any other gospel will get me into the group of people turned away on judgement day because I do not know God. My name will not be written in the Lambs Book of Life (Jesus book of the names of believers). Jesus is the Lamb of God ( the perfect sacrifice for the forgiveness of sin) Scripture never says he is one of the Lambs. Other belief systems may relieve sickness etc for a while, but they will never satisfy my need for a savior of my sin. I tried "religion" through my following the rules etc of Catholicism and came up empty when I needed a reason to live. I had 2 little children at the time and a husband ..... All the things the world said should satisfy, but was very much struggling with a reason to live. No religion will ever satisfy ... only a relationship with the creator of it all. I finally found my reason for living.... it was giving my whole heart to Him. To empty myself of rules and righteousness, and ask Jesus to live in my heart and serve Him alone. In all that I do, every word I speak, I do it all for my Lord Jesus Christ. It is not about me and what I know etc, it is about what He has done for me in paying for my sins. All other systems are about me and what I have done. They are all systems of legalism and rules. Only Christianity is about serving a risen savior. The others have dead leaders. Jesus Christ is seated at the right hand of God waiting for his "church" (the believers) to sit with him in heaven at the second coming. Jesus is the fulfillment of the prophecies of the old testament. He brings a new commandment.... being the Lamb of God. I no longer live, but Christ lives in me. He directs my life through His Word, teaching me to rely more and more on Him. I am not a robot, but am in a relationship with Him. I made this transition when I committed my life to Him Dec 4, 1984. As I prayed that day I no longer was searching for a reason to live, and had a desire to read the bible. I understood what the words said for the first time ever. Before that day I had all your same concerns and issues with God and the bible.... but no more. Scripture teaches about the road to eternal life being narrow because Jesus is the only Way. Many will say "but I cast out demons etc" but all the good works will never replace the need to have a relationship with Jesus. Heritage, religion, good works, race, status, any man made system will always come short of the ability to qualify me for eternal life. God created me to give Glory to Him only. Serving any other master (self, children, job, idle,....) will get me sent away on judgment day. I am a flawed human for sure, but forgiven through faith in Jesus payment through the work done on Calvary. I have never gone back to suicide, because I now have a purpose to live. My kids weren't even enough to keep me living. The biggest reason I never took my life is I was worried about who would care for Eliz and Nick. Joe was working long hours (still does) and I did not want to send them to daycare for 50 hours or more each week. But I still struggled with how to put me out of my pain and suffering..... until I realized I was missing the most important thing in my life. I was trying to work out my own life through religion, and came up very depressed. It was without purpose.... Then I found Jesus!! He continues to change me from the inside out. I did not add him to any other system but let Him be my only way. He died for me, cares for me, forgives my sins, teaches me, corrects me, and loves me (warts and all!!) After over 20 years of serving Him, I only see more clearly the consistency in scripture. I am confident I am not wrong... and have nothing to lose if I am wrong. I no longer consider suicide, and have a song in my heart and smile on my face.
For today.... I must run. I know Mom worries about us talking about faith, and it interfering with our relationship, but I believe in unconditional love and trust you do too. If I got to heaven and God lets me in (which is what I believe will happen) and I am correct with my belief of through Christ alone I get to enter heaven.... I will never be able to forgive myself that I did not share the truth about The Way because I did not think you would want to hear me. No matter what you choose to do with your faith, I will always love you as my big brother. And because you are my brother, I will continue to pray that you choose to follow Jesus Christ as your personal savior.
May God richly bless you as you consider my beliefs and thoughts!!
Love, Mary
Michael replied:
Hi, Mary.
Sorry to be slow, but biz gets in the way at times.
First I want to thank you for your loving way that you explain your beliefs and how they have saved you from self inflicted harm. I am glad it works for you. I don't mind discussing these issues or being encouraged to read the bible, etc., as long as it is not in such a dogmatic way it just turns people off. I think you expressed your views wonderfully and I know that you (and others) feel the need, obligation even, to try to spread your beliefs to others since your beliefs have helped you, and your faith directs you to help others, also.
I have off and on over the years investigated the bible and I just don't agree w/ you re its consistency (not that I am the greatest bible scholar of all time....but I do read). I basically started my doubting way back in high school and had pretty much become non-religious by college. I felt guilty about it for a while, and sometimes over the years felt I "should" try to get some sort of spirituality going again, but even investigations of other religions or philosophies have not caused me to feel enlightened or that I need to join up.
OTOH, I do not get depressed, do not feel the need to search for God, guardian angels, etc., and am generally quite happy and fulfilled. I find purpose in life all over the place, in loving family, in helping others, enjoying nature, being w/ friends, and satisfying work. I have had feelings of some sort of spiritual connection when praying (years ago) or meditating (should do it more) but can feel just as "at one" in nature, w/ Phyllis (and certain good friends), during a good workout, and when all is going well w/ a business deal.
I believe in science, logic, reason, but acknowledge we cannot understand everything (yet) that way. But we learn more every day. Once in the past the sun was a god because people didn't understand how it worked. Now we do. There were gods for rain and volcanoes but now we see those are just part of nature. Once we thought the sun and moon revolved around us while we lived on a flat surface, now we know we are a small part of a large universe and are not at the center of it.
There are healings, mental connections (ESP?), communication (maybe) w/ people who have died, entangled subatomic particles that appear in two places at once, and lots of other things that we don't understand yet, but probably will some day. I don't have to see it to believe it, but it does have to be based in reason, repeatable experiments, multiple observations, and verified by other scientists.
I know science will never have all the answers because each new answer generates more questions. Ethics of technology will be discussed and fought over as new technologies were in the past. When Drs. started doing dissections 500 yrs. ago to see how the body worked people thought that was a sin (and a crime). 100 yrs. ago blood transfusions were "playing god", but now they are an accepted part of modern medicine. Transplanting organs was denounced (still is by some) even though it saved lives. Now we are on the threshold of being able to control genetics, inheritability, avoid disease starting in the first place, and many are denouncing that as unethical, against God's law, etc.
Maybe there is an afterlife: Maybe our energy (soul) does survive in some form, but maybe it is just a physical fact, a law of nature that some day we will understand just like we understand why the sun rises in the east. That is why I am not concerned. Either there is no after life and when we die that's it. Or there is and when we die we go there. Or even reincarnate to a bodily life again as some believe (and there is as much anecdotal evidence of that as there is for "miracles"). If so, we'll all be in heaven-after life together. That's just the way it works. I see no evidence (outside of holy books) that one must believe a certain way or follow a certain behavior to have an after life if one exists. I see many religions, books, and leaders that say they are the one and only path. They can't all be right. And I don't see the bible as being any more "right" than the others. Most seem to contain some good advice mixed w/ some history but also w/ plenty of mistakes, historical fiction, bad science, and antiquated rules.
But like you, Mary, I love you and all the family. We may have widely differing opinions and beliefs on religion - which leads to different beliefs re politics, but so long as we care for each other we will be tight in this world and the next if there is one. I'd much rather be open about these differences than slink around trying to avoid conflict.
So, much love to you, and see you in a few days!!!
Michael.
Mary refining things a bit for Michael
Hi Michael
It is fine with me to put all our conversations on the blog. I am soooo computer illiterate I would not even know how!! Ali has always done things for me on the computer, and now she up and got married and moved out.... the nerve of that girl (haha)!!
Just one more comment before signing off.... The word "Christianity" today is quite often misused. It is often used to describe anyone who is not Jewish. I do not believe I am religious because I am a Christian. Religions are all created by people and full of flaws because of this. Belief in Jesus Christ as my personal savior makes me a Christian. I do not belong to any religion, but to Christ. I am therefore a Christ-ian. I am clarifying this because I do not want to be identified with any one religion. I don’t really like "religion" because it identifies me with an incomplete system of legalism and rules that depend on me doing something to prove I am good enough. Belonging to Christ totally changes my identity. I am now relying on what He did for me, not what I might do for him. I need to do nothing because it was already done for me. I used to trust religion and it only fed into my depression. I do choose to worship with a body of believers, but the church title does not matter. I worship with others who believe in the gospel of Jesus Christ. When you talk about religion being inconsistent etc I totally agree with you. I am not at all about religion, but rather having a relationship with Christ. Hopefully this makes sense. Let me know if it came out clear as mud!!! (This is foundational to how I see my faith not being one of religion)
Anyway... Go ahead and put our conversations on the blog. Its "date night" so I must be off to get cleaned up. Joe and I are looking forward to seeing you next week. I will check with mom and her calendar but we are thinking maybe Fri. for dinner....
Love, Mary
Michael’s final comment.
Dear Mary,
Yes, I understand that you are not tied to any brand of religion or name on the door of the church, and I agree that is a good thing. Cut out the middle man and go direct to your source then surround yourself with people you like who have similar beliefs (or at least who don’t challenge your beliefs) so you can have the human community we all seem to need.
And a PS to Terry:
I am not downplaying your attempts to do the same thing as Mary as far as educating me as to the bible and encouraging me to get back in the fold of believers in some way. I acknowledge that your outreach is just as loving and well intended and understand you must continue to try to persuade me so I won’t be “lost” and I am not going to criticize anyone for that. I try to convince people to do what I think is “right” at times, too. Not everyone agrees….
response to Jesus birth and Christmas....
Yes... Christmas today is not based on a single day of events, but actually a combination of traditions pooled over the years. Many of these traditions are straight from pagan customs. The Roman government in the early years wanted to have a religion for all to celebrate so they combined practices from far and wide to keep everyone included. We do not know the exact day of Jesus birth (it was likely not even in the winter) but none of this is the point of the teaching of the virgin birth. God never told us to celebrate Christmas. We do, out of choice, and with customs straight from paganism.... all very true. Bottom line.... this does nothing to negate the virgin birth of Jesus Christ.
The first Christ followers (christians) were mostly Jews. The 3 gospels (called synoptic gospels because of their similar writing) were written to 3 distinct audiences because of the writers knowledge and the audience they were writing to. Therefore, there is a different emphasis in each of them. They do not contradict, but do put more emphasis on certain parts of the story. Johns gospel was written later so he includes things from a little different angle. All of them were based on oral tradition and eye witness reports, so have a different angle on the same events.
Matthew focused his writings on the Jews. He assumes they are well versed in the old testament and traces scripture to show Jesus as descendent from Abraham and son of David. His main purpose was to prove to his Jewish reader that Jesus is their promised Messiah. He mostly shows this through fulfillment of the prophecies stated in the OT. Mark, through his explanation of various Jewish customs seems to be talking to a mostly gentile audience. He talks of persecution and things of special concern to the Roman believers. He seems to emphasize more of what Jesus did than what he said. Luke, probably a Gentile by birth, was well educated in Greek culture and a physician by profession. He focuses on the works and teaching of Jesus that are espicially important for understanding the way of salvation. Because of his education, his accounts seem to appeal to both Jew and Gentile. Luke seems to bring out the fact that Jews and Gentiles are both in God's plan. John states flat out that he wrote so all may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God, and that by believing you may have life in His name. When studied together these gospels give a complete picture of the years of Jesus as he was born and taught and was crucified and rose from the dead.
With this in mind, I will attempt to explain the article Michael included refering to Jesus birth being a myth and full of contradictions. Yes, the early christians were in fact a lot of Jews. Being Jewish is like being Irish.... Even though you my be a christian, it does not change your heritage. The apostle Paul did in fact know of the virgin birth, but his mission was to teach how to live out christianity, not teach about the virgin birth. So, yes, he does not mention it. Each writer was inspired by God so did not all include the same descriptions of the same events. In galations Paul refers to Jesus being born of a woman to show his human side. He was conceived by the spirit of God, but born of a woman. (God made man) Mark focused of being a disciple of Jesus and was especially focused on the Gentiles in Rome. Therefore, he did not start with the birth of Jesus, but rather with the start of his adult ministry. Just because John states Joseph to be Jesus legal father here on earth does not negate his being the son of God.
As to Jesus ancestry, tracing him to the line of David, they are the same. Luke has all the generations mentioned, going in reverse from Joseph to Adam, showing Jesus relationship to the whole human race. Matthew only mentions the heirs to the throne of David showing his Kingly role. Luke includes Mary in the geneology (seen as a discrepencey mentioning Heli) Mark 12:35-37 does not question Jesus as Messiah, but rather show he is more than the son of David, but as David declared he is Lord.
As far as the birth and the magi coming, this all happened over multiple years. We have put these in together in the christmas celebration as the same event but know fully well that it actually was multiple years. Joseph did have to go to register because he was from the line of David. There were multitudes of people being this was a new decree. Both gospels say they lived in Nazareth, but Jesus was born in Bethlahem. John quotes confusion of some of the people of the time in Ch 7, but nowhere does he validate these thoughts.
A star leading or directing people to Jesus?? Why not?? Scripture tells of the Israelites being lead through the desert by a cloud by day and fire by night. This is God leading.... He really can do it anyway he wants. Humans are still unable to use our humans minds to understand the ways of God. Camels are not mentioned in the new testament.... nor are dogs, cats etc. Does that mean they did not exist?? I think not. Besides, what does the mention of camels have to do with the virgin birth??
When someone gives more detail in a story than another person, do we say the one with the shorter story got it wrong?? (men, think of you telling a story and your wife telling a story... doesn't one of you typically have more details than the other?? Does that change the accuracy of the story?? ) The things mentioned in the acticle on chrismas as discrepencies in the gospels concerning Jesus early years are all of this situation. Some gospel writters give more detail than others. If you read each one and compare them to each other, they do not contradict, but rather have more or less detail given.
Bottom line.... we as humans will never be able to fully comprehend how Jesus can be fully God and fully man and because of this never sin. We will never be able to explain how he can know everything even before it happens. And, why does he create us even tho he knows we will not always make wise choices -- sometimes even horrible choices?? In human terms, he is a selfish God. He creates us to give Him glory and have no other gods before him. After all, He is God and gets to make the rules. And, in the end, giving glory and worship to Him, gives me everlasting peace, purpose in my life here on earth and ultimately everlasting life with Him in heaven.
Was Jesus born of a virgin? Yes... Are we commanded to have a special celebration of this event? No. Over the years we have put together a list of traditions that make up the celebration of christmas. The celebration itself is made by humans. It is simply a tool we have chosen to use to remember the birth of Jesus. Some choose to celebrate it without Jesus at all and only talk about Santa Claus. That is their choice. It still does not negate the virgin birth. And while Jesus birth is a miracle, it is incomplete without his death and resurrection. He was born to die as the perfect sacrifice for your sins and mine. And, without the resurrection he died for no reason. And, if I could get to heaven any other way, his death was not even necessary and he was in fact wasting his time. I DO need a savior and am forever thankful for what Christ did for me. And yes, that did require being born....
For now.... enough said!
May God richly bless you all this Christmas season!!
In Christ, Mary
The first Christ followers (christians) were mostly Jews. The 3 gospels (called synoptic gospels because of their similar writing) were written to 3 distinct audiences because of the writers knowledge and the audience they were writing to. Therefore, there is a different emphasis in each of them. They do not contradict, but do put more emphasis on certain parts of the story. Johns gospel was written later so he includes things from a little different angle. All of them were based on oral tradition and eye witness reports, so have a different angle on the same events.
Matthew focused his writings on the Jews. He assumes they are well versed in the old testament and traces scripture to show Jesus as descendent from Abraham and son of David. His main purpose was to prove to his Jewish reader that Jesus is their promised Messiah. He mostly shows this through fulfillment of the prophecies stated in the OT. Mark, through his explanation of various Jewish customs seems to be talking to a mostly gentile audience. He talks of persecution and things of special concern to the Roman believers. He seems to emphasize more of what Jesus did than what he said. Luke, probably a Gentile by birth, was well educated in Greek culture and a physician by profession. He focuses on the works and teaching of Jesus that are espicially important for understanding the way of salvation. Because of his education, his accounts seem to appeal to both Jew and Gentile. Luke seems to bring out the fact that Jews and Gentiles are both in God's plan. John states flat out that he wrote so all may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God, and that by believing you may have life in His name. When studied together these gospels give a complete picture of the years of Jesus as he was born and taught and was crucified and rose from the dead.
With this in mind, I will attempt to explain the article Michael included refering to Jesus birth being a myth and full of contradictions. Yes, the early christians were in fact a lot of Jews. Being Jewish is like being Irish.... Even though you my be a christian, it does not change your heritage. The apostle Paul did in fact know of the virgin birth, but his mission was to teach how to live out christianity, not teach about the virgin birth. So, yes, he does not mention it. Each writer was inspired by God so did not all include the same descriptions of the same events. In galations Paul refers to Jesus being born of a woman to show his human side. He was conceived by the spirit of God, but born of a woman. (God made man) Mark focused of being a disciple of Jesus and was especially focused on the Gentiles in Rome. Therefore, he did not start with the birth of Jesus, but rather with the start of his adult ministry. Just because John states Joseph to be Jesus legal father here on earth does not negate his being the son of God.
As to Jesus ancestry, tracing him to the line of David, they are the same. Luke has all the generations mentioned, going in reverse from Joseph to Adam, showing Jesus relationship to the whole human race. Matthew only mentions the heirs to the throne of David showing his Kingly role. Luke includes Mary in the geneology (seen as a discrepencey mentioning Heli) Mark 12:35-37 does not question Jesus as Messiah, but rather show he is more than the son of David, but as David declared he is Lord.
As far as the birth and the magi coming, this all happened over multiple years. We have put these in together in the christmas celebration as the same event but know fully well that it actually was multiple years. Joseph did have to go to register because he was from the line of David. There were multitudes of people being this was a new decree. Both gospels say they lived in Nazareth, but Jesus was born in Bethlahem. John quotes confusion of some of the people of the time in Ch 7, but nowhere does he validate these thoughts.
A star leading or directing people to Jesus?? Why not?? Scripture tells of the Israelites being lead through the desert by a cloud by day and fire by night. This is God leading.... He really can do it anyway he wants. Humans are still unable to use our humans minds to understand the ways of God. Camels are not mentioned in the new testament.... nor are dogs, cats etc. Does that mean they did not exist?? I think not. Besides, what does the mention of camels have to do with the virgin birth??
When someone gives more detail in a story than another person, do we say the one with the shorter story got it wrong?? (men, think of you telling a story and your wife telling a story... doesn't one of you typically have more details than the other?? Does that change the accuracy of the story?? ) The things mentioned in the acticle on chrismas as discrepencies in the gospels concerning Jesus early years are all of this situation. Some gospel writters give more detail than others. If you read each one and compare them to each other, they do not contradict, but rather have more or less detail given.
Bottom line.... we as humans will never be able to fully comprehend how Jesus can be fully God and fully man and because of this never sin. We will never be able to explain how he can know everything even before it happens. And, why does he create us even tho he knows we will not always make wise choices -- sometimes even horrible choices?? In human terms, he is a selfish God. He creates us to give Him glory and have no other gods before him. After all, He is God and gets to make the rules. And, in the end, giving glory and worship to Him, gives me everlasting peace, purpose in my life here on earth and ultimately everlasting life with Him in heaven.
Was Jesus born of a virgin? Yes... Are we commanded to have a special celebration of this event? No. Over the years we have put together a list of traditions that make up the celebration of christmas. The celebration itself is made by humans. It is simply a tool we have chosen to use to remember the birth of Jesus. Some choose to celebrate it without Jesus at all and only talk about Santa Claus. That is their choice. It still does not negate the virgin birth. And while Jesus birth is a miracle, it is incomplete without his death and resurrection. He was born to die as the perfect sacrifice for your sins and mine. And, without the resurrection he died for no reason. And, if I could get to heaven any other way, his death was not even necessary and he was in fact wasting his time. I DO need a savior and am forever thankful for what Christ did for me. And yes, that did require being born....
For now.... enough said!
May God richly bless you all this Christmas season!!
In Christ, Mary
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